Video Transcript:

you gentlemen had penned a letter to Prime Minister Mark Carney that has really taken social media by storm over the last 24 48 hours if these folks aren’t going to do their jobs and if these so-called robust organizations like it and Enzikov that Prime Minister Trudeau and Marco Meduchccino and and uh Dominic Leblanc wanted us to believe in if they’re not going to do their jobs then we are and that led to the [Music] letter in March of 20 uh Cecus comes and rings my doorbell not one agency in this country has told me the truth not one minister has wanted to engage in in seeking out that truth and when this intelligence is wrong it has disastrous consequences as I found out personally they did more warrants more production orders and more investigative techniques on me than they did on Bill Mer who was apparently involved in espionage i go to order an Uber on my phone and lo and behold my phone um is locked due to too many password attempts this is a different type of of tool this is a covert tool you don’t even know it’s there and they can click a button and listen in at virtually any time through your cell phone the three of us wear targets on our backs now as do a few other people that were named that that crossed a very serious line this is the tough part of being the boss and if you want to be the boss you got to do the job military-grade spywear covert surveillance foreign interference CESUS Pegasus cabinet level cover-ups and Canadians caught in the crossfire but this isn’t fiction or some Tom Clansancy novel this is real this is Canada detective Paul McNamera 26 years in law enforcement expert in financial crimes and covert operations with the Vancouver Police Department sergeant Peter Maryfield 27 years with the RCMP 23 in National Security and Foreign Intelligence four years in the Canadian Armed Forces these two men tried to sound the alarm and they were ignored and they were persecuted now for the first time they get to tell their story in full let’s take a look so ladies and gentlemen we are very fortunate and I will even say honored though some in the federal government may disagree with me to welcome Sergeant Pete Maryfield of the RCMP and uh retired Detective Paul McNamera of the Vancouver Police Department gentlemen welcome to Northern Perspective thank you thank you so you gentlemen had penned a letter to Prime Minister Mark Carney that has really taken social media by storm over the last 24 48 hours and when we initially saw it we were approaching it with some level of skepticism as I think most people were just because usually these types of things come through the Globe and Mail they come through global news but this came from a different route it came through uh social media i think most of us ended up seeing it as a result of it being posted by the CCFR and uh and posted via the Google Drive link that they had uh offered to everybody and in it you lay out a I would say a a very nonpartisan uh approach to certain grievances certain observations and you call to account many of the ministers that were in Justin Trudeau’s cabinet as well as current Prime Minister Mark Carney’s cabinet and after that you call Prime Minister Carney to account and saying “Listen you’ve been saying that this is going to be a change for the Liberal government you’ve you’ve been saying this is going to be a change of leadership now’s the time to put your money where your mouth is and as a result of these observations and these findings that we’re putting uh before you findings that we have put before the previous government multiple times with relative inaction it’s time for you to remove these people from your cabinet and and uh and from candidacy so I’ll just I’ll I’ll throw it to you first um Pete what prompted you and Paul to to to write this letter and uh and drop it when you did ryan we’ve been trying to get um official government agency and um government- elected official attention to a very serious matter for nearly three years uh this uh this really fell in our laps um unfortunately uh in a heavy way around 2022 and I I just want to clarify if I can Ryan I mean I I’m really wearing three hats in in the preparation of this letter um you know one I was uh an agrieved union executive for the RCMP uh members union two I was impacted as a sergeant in the Royal Canadian Mount of Police I had my career dangled in front of my face um and three you know I was a fronted as a citizen that wants to be able to believe in the accountability of government i’ve spent the better part of 31 years combined between the armed forces and the RCMP serving Canadians and I I know that I’ve been accountable for my actions and I want to believe um having run protective operations and and and knowing many of these people um I we’re not throwing dispersions on them by character but we are deeply concerned about their lack of accountability and their inaction um and the attentiveness of performing their expected duties under oath as a minister of government so that’s what prompted the letter and and uh quite frankly we we had both discussed uh our deep deep deep concern um with Prime Minister Carney’s mishandling of the Paul Chang situation our problem emanates with Chinese interference Chinese intelligence false allegations missteps by CEUS and the RCMP to see a former police senior police officer and a sitting member of parliament call for the abduction and the turnover to a third party nation at their consulate for bounty to a nation that this Liberal government has spent 10 years criticizing the human rights record of was unprecedented i don’t think this has ever happened in Canadian history and they tried to fluff over it like it never happened and as we as we saw because many of our viewers saw our coverage of of that event Prime Minister Carney stood up and defended Paul Chang and and said “No he’s he he’s full of integrity don’t worry about him.” Um and then once the RCMP ended up saying “Hey we’re going to be taking a look at this.” Subsequently Paul Chang resigned not to be outdone then they appointed Peter Euan who it seems has even deeper ties and and stronger connections to the Chinese United Front Work Department as well as the PRC even attended a parade uh over in China at the invitation of them so and again another long long-erving police officer within that community so Paul as a police officer you spent a a long illustrious career with the Vancouver Police Department you’ve worked with the United States government as well when you see that type of let’s just say disregard for the integrity of what should be the the highest level of accountability in uh citizen service which is becoming a member of parliament you should be held to the highest standard what what was going through your head when you saw a Paul Chang um be revealed to have said those things not be not be fired by by Mark Carney and then Peter Euan take over well as you know as Pete said um you know before we we decided to write this letter you know this wasn’t just something that we we said “Hey let’s let’s you know just randomly write this letter and see what happens.” I mean it it took some time for us to come to the decision to to write this letter because we weren’t getting uh the the the word out of of things that have gone wrong in government and and again it comes down to accountability you know um I went to China in 2019 which was part of my issue to uh research and possibly purchase an above ground stainless steel swimming pool for a swim club here in in in Burnaby because u lane spaces is short and you know this is literally a sixlane 25 meter stainless steel pool that you can bolt into a warehouse and and and use it above ground it’s it’s it’s used around the world in in sporting events it’s nothing new but but it’s made in China it’s affordable and you know we researched to see if we could get it there that led into me being in China for nefarious activities which ultimately resulted in my uh job being dismissed and and what the point I’m trying to make is you know where’s the accountability and the level of accountability when when somebody like Chang can come out with a statement to have a conservative member arrested and taken to another country’s uh embassy on a bounty and that’s acceptable and somehow I’m in China to do my best for a sports club and and to help our youth in BC in swimming and somehow that’s parlayed into me uh having some nefarious activity in China that that’s what really got me and and decided you know this playing field is not level and it’s not equal and if we have bad intelligence uh which is my belief in my by my my my uh uh process of being dismissed from the consulate and uh Pete’s issues with the RCMP if we if we don’t correct those mistakes we have major issues and and the only way we could get our word out is to have these ministers held to account because we we approached this subject long long before um uh Micro was arrested in 2023 this has nothing to do with that we had identified these issues long before that and we got no answers from anybody nobody was interested and their job as ministers is to take an interest in these types of things so out went the letter and I know that some of the commentary in the letter is um is with CISUS and and some of the issues there but it’s interesting because a lot of what both of you are talking about sounds a lot like what led to even the CESUS whistleblowers from putting out their letter to the Glob and Mail and the media it it sounds almost verbatim you know we are raising these issues we are trying to sound the alarm we are doing everything we can within the process in which we are bound by and nobody is listening prime Ministers are not listening they’re not responding government officials are not listening they’re not responding and so they’re left almost within this catch 22 because they’ve swore an oath as as both of you they’ve swore an oath to protect the Canadian people they’ve swore an oath to protect their country how do you do that when whichever way you you operate whether it’s within the the bounds of of the process in which you’re allowed or if you essentially break the law both of those are are are breaking that oath in in one way shape or form so that that that is the just fantastic conundrum that that is in here um so I find interesting parallels between those whistleblowers and inus and and uh and the path that that both of you were forced to take ultimately no disrespect to those whistleblowers but we were prepared to step out of the shadows use our names sign our letter and and come on programs like this and answer these questions um and and that’s not a slate to those folks i I get that in some case they try to maintain um you know a fair degree of u of of covert um and and perhaps they fear retaliation but in the end Ryan um this is not a political partisan play and they’re going to be those that jump on Google and go “Oh Maryfield was a was a conservative candidate in 2004 in a federal election.” Yes I was and I removed myself for the most part from from any involvement in federal politics by 2008 simply because of the nature of the very discreet and highly secret work that I was doing in the RCMP but at the time that I ran for Steven Harper in 2004 months previously I had interviewed with the camp of Paul Martin um we had a very close family friend who was a Liberal member of parliament and and she had a lot of respect for me and I had a lot of respect for her and she thought I would be a very very good candidate for the Liberal Party um as a youth I was a member of a young liberal writing association in fact I founded it um I was one of five young liberals in Canada that co-authored some 40 years ago the still standing Liberal policy for nationally funded daycare that seems to bounce around between the Liberals and the NDP i’m a centrist Paul um I am a Canadian first i don’t identify by my political interest or stripe um and I hope that I don’t offend anyone that watches this but for any of us that identify by our political beliefs first um we’re setting ourselves up for conflict we need to be Canadians first you know I’ve traveled around the world both you know for personal pleasure and and professionally and I’ve been to some really unique countries the political spectrum in this country from from from green to conservative is really only about this big there are countries in the world where it’s almost immeasurable the spectrum between the left and the right we’re very fortunate but but what we have succumbed to um is an absolute failure um of our elected officials to know when to stop politicking and begin governing the four-year electoral cycle has become a 4-year politicking cycle it’s become Instagram moments photo opportunities 30-second camera sound bites it’s lost its substance there’s no strategic planning where’s the 20-year plan for the Canadian Armed Forces where’s the 20-year plan for our national security chinese interference and influence um both politically and and security-wise consumed all the oxygen in the room in Canada for two years we had a multi-million dollar inquiry we destroyed the reputation of former Governor General Johnston because no one wanted to accept his findings um it became political theater and in the end Justice Hogue’s report didn’t seem to find anything and again inserting ourselves we wrote extensively to Hogue and her legal team asking to come and testify and bring them some of the evidence that we’ve released here and the reason that we did that Ryan is that what we have learned in our investigation there is a fragility there is an absolute um fragile element to the Canadian the national security system between CEUS and the RCP if we do not improve it what happened to us is a clear example to foreign influencers like Russia and China and India and North Korea and Iran that all they have to do is plant disinformation within the Canadian national security infrastructure and they will run around chasing their tails and you know there there’s a a long list recently of of failed national security investigations post 9/11 we did okay with counterterrorism that’s a different animal but true national security work it is covert it is espionage it is it is done through contracted agents it’s done through ex expats that are philosophically aligned or economically motivated to participate you know this is a return almost really to the Cold War spy era and I don’t think we were ready for it and um and and it’s really it it’s really leveraging I would say counter intelligence right where you are um and for those that don’t know counter intelligence is probably one of the most sophisticated forms of intelligence out there and those that are skilled in it they can they can do things that you wouldn’t even believe um they can disappear they can become new people they can find anyone and and turn anyone it seems in terms of getting information for for their country so and and this is what a lot of alarm bells have been uh been sounding about China for the last 20 years multiple governments um and I know some of the journalists out there like Sam Cooper and and others have been trying to raise visibility to this of you know they’re coming in through Vancouver in these underground casinos and turning politicians and then diverting down to the United States and and investing in in other regions of Canada to try and influence other politicians and even CESUS has said this is a playground for foreign interference it’s a playground because Canada just doesn’t take it seriously they we say “Well we’ve created these committees.” Well that’s great you’ve created some committees but what are you doing about it what are you doing to to shine a light the way the United States does in many situations when they when they even suspect somebody is is an agent for a foreign country and and they are perpetuating foreign interference they shine you know a spotlight on that to to ensure that everybody knows and and and that any foreign agent understands that the American public will know and and and react accordingly but when it comes to us we use this excuse of “Well that could compromise national security.” Well then what’s the point what’s the point in in in gathering this intelligence if you’re not going to even use it never mind report it so um and that’s something that we’ve uh we’ve come to the opinion of in in covering this for the last two years and uh and it has been racist this isn’t a Liberal government problem this is a Canadian government problem because it goes back more than 20 years now in in your letter you cite nine different ministers now one of the things I would like to clarify for our audience is there seems to have been some confusion intentional or not by um uh by some people on social media to conflate these nine names with the alleged 11 in the ENSOP report where in the Enikop report there’s allegedly these nine names of people that have been collaborating wittingly or unwittingly with foreign foreign intelligence actors and from what I’ve seen from from your letter Paul and and Pete you’re not alleging any of these nine people are any of those 11 people what you’re saying is these nine people have committed egregious failures in their position and should be called out uh as such is is my interpretation of that correct go ahead Paul yeah yeah no it is correct absolutely our our letter is not it’s it’s about the lack of of accountability when they’ve been confronted with a problem that’s probably more domestic than it is foreign and as Pete was alluding to you know w with the China uh foreign interference uh stuff that’s going on uh I I I truly think that nobody really knows where we stand on it because as you alluded to Ryan everything’s hidden behind national security whether it goes right or it goes wrong it it’s a shield that’s used both ways uh are there spying activities going on in Canada absolutely no doubt I’m sure um as as there are elsewhere in the world perpetrated by the west that that’s the game of of intelligence you like it or not we all spy on each other but if we don’t have a robust uh intelligence defense uh program ourselves blaming our adversary for our failures because we didn’t get it right here in this country is something that needs to be addressed and when we tried to address that with the ministers we didn’t get a single response the only response we got was from the PMO’s office when we did email Prime Minister Trudeau’s office and he delegated uh a number of ministers to look after the issue we didn’t hear back from anybody yes I believe you got a response from uh almost like an executive assistant and saying “Oh well you know Mr leblanc is is going to take care of this.” And no and and nobody did and you know let’s put this in Canadian hockey terms shall we we can all understand hockey you know we can complain that our team gets beat every time we play the opposing team and it’s not fair that they win 7 nothing every time we play them but nobody wants to come up and say well you know if you had a better goalie in a defense you might not actually lose seven nothing you might not lose at all and here we are with our intelligence and and that’s the issue we have and we know that because of the disinformation or the you know almost the manufactured information that was used against Pete and myself resulting in our issues we have that on paper you know we know that um and that that’s what needed to be corrected and as Pete said this is not a political issue for me i couldn’t care if you’re a liberal minister or what if you’re in the government of the day and you are are not doing your job then you’re not being accountable and that’s where we need to move forward in in Canadian politics we need politicians to be engaged again not politicking so well and we’ve had we’ve had a former colonel of the armed forces on here coming at this from a completely different perspective but coming to the same conclusion is that Canada does not take national security seriously enough and he he points out that national security is not just the armed forces but the the average Canadian probably thinks that that’s all national security is but as as both of you which is fortuitous in that Paul you’ve you’ve served a lot at the municipal level in in terms of the uh Vancouver Police Department you’ve served um in in a somewhat international level in in terms of providing protection in in the US consulate and then um Pete you’ve uh you’ve been all over i’ll I’ll just say that um it it really brings home this this view that we need to take when it comes to national security it’s it’s municipal it’s provincial it’s federal it’s armed forces um and and it’s even in our how we conduct our media and the fact that when you talk about disinformation and foreign governments have planted disinformation in order to get our own intelligence agencies to chase their tails the fact that we don’t seem to have the capability to detect when that’s happening is another issue in itself to your point Paul um it would be like me not locking any of my doors and then burglars breaking in and then me blaming the police department for that happening um you know you have to have your own house in order before you can then say “Okay we’ve done everything we possibly could and this still happened now we need to understand external variables and and and and parties at play here.” And you still don’t want to play the blame game but you can at least factf find and understand why and our our our institutions don’t seem interested in doing that which has led us to to this apex moment I think as a country ryan one of the um one of the elements here and and again we don’t want to play to any partisan side on this um I mean I think we’ve been clear we were shocked um at the way Prime Minister Carney handled the Chang issue um and we’re not picking on him because everyone has their flaws um but you know this is a man who hasn’t lived in the country for a decade hasn’t really been a part of the government infrastructure doesn’t understand the agencies or organizations that serve it at the Bank of Canada he had a specific role he dealt with specific elements of of um of the government but from this side of the house you know we have this Canadian Securities Establishment we have the Canadian Security Intelligence Service we have the Royal Canadian Matter of Police we have the Canadian Border Services Agency we have the Department of National Defense we have elements within Global Affairs Canada um we have important critical relationships um with municipal and provincial police forces across the country and then you add into that our international relationships that we have with um uh federal law enforcement around the world it’s a complex operating environment and and often the fragmentation the um the patch mentality of you know well my agency does this and we do it this way and that’s how we’re going to do it the kids don’t play well together in the playground and the bad guys take advantage of it so and and we can clearly do a whole another podcast about that i’ I’d be more than happy to share my 27 years of observations um look I’ve successfully chased down Iran’s nuclear um procurement program and disrupted much of their ability uh at a period of time to rebuild their uranium enrichment facilities so you know I dealt with the US the UK the Danes the Mexicans i mean pick a country i think it was 13 countries we chased money laundering through five countries for for um trans shshipment of illegal goods you know it was complex this is not easy work and anyone that thinks it’s easy work has never done this work but but back to the letter and to the credibility issue to Canadians um we’re not trying to beat up Mr carney we just know that this is new i mean this has been a whirlwind prime minister who was selected by a political party after a very brief campaign because the previous prime minister couldn’t have pulled lower and his own party threw him over the side of the rail of the ship so they brought in what they believed is a star candidate they’ve raced to a fiveweek campaign which is the shortest allowed by law by Elections Canada um you know some of the opposition parties are criticizing that he’s not being exposed he’s not answering questions he’s not available he’s playing the uh the you know the prime minister card i think that there’s been some um politicking off of our challenges with trade and relationship and um and uh independence with our neighbors to the south but as Canadians we can’t lose sight of we have a very important choice at the end of this fiveweek campaign and it’s who are we going to support to ensure that we start looking strategically and doing things differently and Ryan that really was the single biggest um motivator behind this letter we had written several times to all those ministers and the prime minister Trudeau um at least his director of of communications had the courtesy to respond to us not once but twice and uh and share that response with the appropriate minister of public safety at the time once it was Marco Meduchccino once it was Mr leblanc neither ever responded to us and when you look at the things that we outline um we have an unprecedented breach of section 38 national security laws and rules here where the RCMP national security section in Montreal just selected to unseal documents related to a security of information act case that hasn’t even been to trial they have identified my knowledge of intelligence operations within China and they have exposed the person who claims to have been a contract for intelligence agent for them that’s unprecedented in this country you Ryan if you get time um and maybe for your viewers you may want to look back in history around 2003 2004 in the United States and look at the Pla affair um Miss Plain was a CIA operative whose husband worked with the US State Department he was a low to mid-level diplomat they would travel around on his transfer she would be the dutiful wife but was actually a CIA operative he had published a paper I think critical of the um US position on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq there was a bit of a a political play at the White House and someone exposed her his wife as a CIA operative you just simply do not do that i mean there were congressional inquiries there were investigations i think there’s a chap named Scooter Libby that may have been charged criminally um this is the stuff that goes on Brian and this letter is legitimate the documents that we’ve attached are legitimate they’re in the courts people want to go to the courthouse they can get these we We can’t make up emails that came from the prime minister’s office and and we don’t make up time date stamps on the emails we sent we have dozens of emails emails to the RCMP emails uh to you know and we followed the process we filed a complaint with the National Security Intelligence Review Agency and I have I have faith in them but they’re 2 to 3 years to complete an investigation um and that’s an unacceptable time frame you know we wrote to ENSOP the National Security Intelligent and Intelligence Committee of Parliament now during the Chinese interference scandal Prime Minister Trudeau um public safety minister Leblanc uh all these other prior public safety ministers Meduchino they all stood up and said “We have a robust oversight system we have a robust system between Ensira and Enseok.” Well we went to the system it didn’t work and and Ryan Canadians need to know something never in my life in traveling the world and dealing with international law enforcement have I seen a more broken system of filing a complaint against CESUS for your viewers awareness if you have a problem with CEUS you must write it out in detail send it to the director of CEUS they get a couple of weeks to decide whether or not they’re going to let it go to investigation at Inira so imagine having a complaint of wrongdoing about an organization and we did name Mr vino as having probably signed off on erroneous intelligence now whether he knew that was or wasn’t he was under a lot of pressure and strain during Mang Wanu and the two Michaels so you know we did mention that you’ll see in the letters to NSA cop and some of the others that we were concerned that he was being pressured by the minister of public safety by the privy council office by the per minister’s office to provide answers to them as to what the heck’s going on with the two Michaels now that we’ve got uh Manguanu in detention here in Canada i I cannot believe that you would send your complete full written complaint about an organization to the director of that organization for them to decide if an external body can investigate it that’s that’s cfasque that’s ridiculous yeah yeah and for those that are interested in uh in some of the emails that Paul and Pete are referring to you can uh you can see them at the end of this video but we will be posting them so you can read them in their entirety so there’s no distraction and um uh and you can put some some additional context to to what Paul and and Peter have uh uh spoken about now in um in in the letter um here’s just some of the uh of the allegations that you make so Minister Manuchino uh failed to respond on direction from Prime Minister Trudeau’s office to address impropriy of at CEUS and the RCMP permitted breaches of law breaches of process and breaches of policy by both CEUS and the RCMP dominic Leblanc imp um uh failed to address breaches against Canadians with improper use of electronic spyware by CEUS and the RCMP bill Blair failed as Minister of Public Safety by authorizing extreme powers for CESUS to undertake inappropriate action against innocent Canadians david McGinty failed as chair of ENSOP and recently Minister of Public Safety to address improper actions of CEUS for withholding critical national security information from an RCMP investigation anita Anan Steve McKinnon Melanie Jolie Arie Ferrarani and Christopher Frell and and you know the allegations go on and there there’s there’s a pattern between these ministers and it’s not just these uh ministers that are I would say exercising this pattern because other ministers while not committing the same type of infraction in terms of national security it seems to they seem to be committing the same dereliction of duty or in some cases straight obis off obfiscation of it you have Bill Blair being caught in committee and even admitting that he received well he doesn’t know if he received these emails regarding national security or not because he never opened them um you know there were warrants that were put on his desk for for you know over a month that CEUS was begging to get approved never ended up getting to them and and Ceus missed their opportunity and you have Marco Menuccino seemingly not knowing what’s going on in his department at all even when it comes to extreme high-profile criminals like Marco Menccino or sorry like Marco Menccino i’m sure everyone has agreed with me on that mess up paul Bernardo I think I think you need to see Freud Ryan i think you need to visit Mr freud i think that was a Freudian slip i I think I think a lot of people would probably agree with what I just said but um but this is this is what we’ve seen is is this call it incompetence call it um intentional negligence call it whatever you will but the result is the same and just for those that may not be familiar maybe they haven’t read the letter um I’m going to ask um uh both of you to try to provide I know it’s going to be pro probably difficult but a a brief summary of what happened to you that that brought you to here because this is this is all also you know reflected in the letter so So Paul you had a long illustrious career you served the city of Vancouver faithfully i would say you served Canada faithfully um you served ironically the United States government faithfully in in keeping their dignitaries safe what happened well thanks for your comments i mean and and that uh that faith uh faithful you know or the faith to to my service and to my country which is which is something I stood for you know in the undercover world um you know you don’t take lightly taking somebody’s liberty uh through an undercover operation uh you know that that’s a serious um weight on on any uh police officer’s shoulders if you’re doing your job properly and you care about it so you’re accountable you’re transparent uh you know I’ve been to court uh many times on major files and and grilled uh by the defense council and rightfully so because if you can’t withstand the scrutiny then you’ve done something wrong and and so this accountability uh has always stuck with me so you know I I again as I said I I went to China in 2019 to buy these uh research or possibly purchase these uh under stainless steel swimming pools at the same time I had a relationship a personal re relationship with Bill Maker simply personal uh personal i’d known him since uh 2004 at the end of the day uh when my security clearance was re uh redone after five years with the US uh state department uh all the checks were completed US intelligence checks cleaning law enforcement checks US law enforcement checks were all done and I was granted my security clearance turns out the outstanding check left was ceas who who were always notoriously slow but given my position it was sped up and as a result of that process it turns out that I should never have gone to China to meet with Bill Mer who was going to introduce me to uh Chinese officials none of that happened i never met a micer um and so somehow this is the kind of intelligence uh you know mishap that has serious consequences and intelligence is not evidence intelligence is I’m going to steal Pete Pete’s Thunder here because it’s it’s something that resonates with me but when you have a clear glass of water and you put a little drop of food coloring into that water you’ve poisoned that pure glass of water and that that intelligence you can’t get that back out of the water it stays tainted so I put a drop of red dye in the water and it goes bright red i can dilute it by adding more intelligence to it but I can never get that little piece of dye out of that water and and that’s exactly how this transpired and so my mission until I met Pete my personal mission at that time was to find the truth which was the undercover world to seek the truth and I can tell you not one agency in this country has told me the truth not one minister has wanted to engage in in seeking out that truth and when this intelligence is wrong it has disastrous consequences as I found out personally and as Pete has found out and and my mission is to make sure this does not happen to another Canadian because it’s not right and it’s not supposed to be the Canadian way so and Pete you in the next you’ve you’ve had um and still have a uh a a long career with the RCMP so for those that that may not be familiar they may not be aware and maybe they haven’t read the letter what happened so I uh I’d known Bill Miker since about 2006 or seven uh we were both Mounties he retired not long after that um Bill had a background in international finance he moved to Hong Kong um he was working with an international bank and finance corporation there um he was facilitating deals he was traveling through the Middle East he was having a fairly successful postrc career um we stayed in touch um you know Bill knew that I was struggling to unionize the RCMP it had been a 20-year struggle uh that I started with a group of other very committed members in the RCMP in around 2003 um and it it uh it was one of those things where Bill was always saying “Ah why don’t you leave the force why don’t you come work with me?” Um Bill would introduce me to other business opportunities uh but I was going to see through the the mission bill also shared with me quietly um his work as a contract intelligence operative in Hong Kong on behalf of CEUS on behalf of MI6 and on behalf of certain US agencies um I never doubted that uh Bill never gave me reason to doubt him bill knew that my work was at above top secret i wrote prime minister briefing notes um you know I disrupted things in Iran and and wrote notes to to uh Stephen Harper when he was in Trinidad for an organization of American States meeting he and Barack Obama were having breakfast and Barack Obama congratulated him on my disruption of Iranian nuclear procurement so I worked at a very high level bill never once in the 19 years that I have known him he has never asked me a compromising question and he has never asked me a question about protected information or things that I have done seen heard or acquired um somewhere along the line it appears around 2018 somebody started pumping bad information into the CEUS system that Bill was a double agent and we think that what happened with that is that it was false um jealous very professional jealousy human intelligence that was uh provided in a form of disinformation unfortunately that was compounded by a um uh an open-source ABC Australia television documentary that Bill did um he was actually he didn’t do it he was just interviewed in it and it was about asset recovery and China and how there was a fine line between legal asset recovery um and Chinese uh influence on on expatriots in foreign countries that open- source intelligence appears to have been interpreted by some analyst somewhere at CESUS as confirmation that this disinformation human intelligence and this open-source television piece have confirmed in their mind that Bill is in fact a double agent um that occurred just before the Mang Wansu detention in Canada in December of 2018 mang was detained one of the targets that Bill had been asked to get close to was a think tank called Anbound um they’re like the Fraser Institute it’s a bunch of former security officials generals professors intellects in China that have a think tank to provide opinions to the government bill was contracted by them because he was a former federal Canadian officer to give them an opinion on the mutual legal assistant treaty program um that would be required in order for the um the detention and then the extradition process of Manganu to the United States and again let’s put reference on this manganu was accused of fraud she was accused of lying to a bank so this was not espionage this was not national security she had a simple accusation of fraud by the US government david Vigno made a very serious public speech not long after her detention about Canada shifting gears from terrorism to foreign state intervention he identified China and Russia by name days later the two Michaels were detained in China and held for nearly 3 years bill when he was contacted by handbound flew to Bangkok reported to the Canadian embassy to the ceus officer there that he had been contracted by a prior target and that he was going to go to Canada from that moment forward uh them believing Bill was a double agent and Bill not knowing that he was suspect by ceases they began monitoring everything bill and I and our communications our emails our texts our WhatsApp were all being monitored um at the time I was an operations commander at um the VIP section so I was around world leaders i was with you know Prime Minister Trudeau weekly um I think this caused grave concern for CEUS bill came to Vancouver did some research on his main paper met and had lunch with an old friend of his this Paul McNamera guy who just happened to be the director of security for the US consulate where they just happened to have the US Department of Justice working out of that building on the extradition of Manguan cis began to turn this we believe now so at this point I I’m going to say this is theory but we believe now that they started spinning this into some massive spy ring uh where Bill was either utilizing contacts or manipulating contacts to the benefit of China and that’s just not what happened so Paul and I interviewed a uh uh a confidential informant we will not disclose that gave us very credible information from inside CESUS that at that time this became the number one file for CESUS um there was a lot of pressure on the manganu the two Michaels issue this former contract agent of theirs who is now apparently a double agent who was working on her case was the number one file um and we heard that this was on Bill Blair’s desk daily so from that point forward CEUS worked me um extensively i know that they worked me with ondevice intercept techniques spyware um some people know it as as Pegasus spyware but it’s it’s a a deeply deeply intrusive electronic tool i know that they did that on me in 2019 because they quoted a very private conversation in treasonous allegations they made against me which were erroneous but they had to have been listening electronically to that conversation because it was three people in a very discreet location it was Bill myself and and one of Bill’s business partners who’s a lawyer at a keg restaurant in Toronto cesus provided excerpts from that which means the only person they could have possibly had spyware on and had access to was me the risk there Ryan is that I was escorting dignitaries between people I had been around that day and days later us Ambassador Kelly Craft that was US President Donald Trump’s close friend and personal appointee as Ambassador to Canada and potentially Ceus was listening to her whenever she was in proximity of me i then did the first foreign visit of President Vladimir Zalinski in June of 2019 when he came to Canada for the Ukrainian Reform Conference which was hosted by the US and Canada at the University of Toronto um so it it caused me a lot of concern ceus then and again all of this is happening behind my back i have no idea that this is going on yeah you you don’t know that it’s happening as it’s happening it’s it’s it’s a surreptitious intelligence operation against me so in March of 20 uh CESUS comes and rings my doorbell i’m not home now my family relocated um a self-funded move the government did not pay for our transfer i was involved in a weapon smuggling case some years ago um very credible death threats were made against me and my family and in fact uh the person got out of jail stole a firearm and did come looking for me um I’m not going to get into a lot of the details but uh we chose to relocate out of personal safety it was difficult on my wife and my children because uh we had to go to their school advise that if anyone other than my wife or I came to the school asking for the kids they had to go into lockdown contact the local police of jurisdiction they had a note on response for anything attached to my name that it was multiple police units and a tactical team so this was a very serious very credible very stressful situation when someone rang my doorbell and I wasn’t home two gentlemen lied to my wife at the door and said “Oh uh we work with Pete.” And uh my wife said “The hell you do?” Locked the door called me and I simply said “Call the OP and tell them there’s two guys with guns under their coat of the door.” Um no one like no one not Paul not not my brother not my mother not my father come to my home unannounced because of those security risks everyone calls so my wife was out of sorts on this you know my my older children even in in their late teens and early 20s were very concerned for everyone’s safety and then my cell phone rang and it was ceases so they clearly had my number they were playing games i worked with them extensively when I worked in national security i know their tactics so at that point I knew that they were up on me again now legitimately uh with electronic monitoring the ceaseless tactic is to go up with the spyware on your phone contact you rattle you and then monitor you to see who you text call email report say “Oh my god ceases came they they found us.” None of that happened what I did do is I called the uh RCMP deputy commissioner of federal policing um Mike Dame who’s now the commissioner of the RCP and I said “Hey Mike I’ve been contacted by CEUS they did a door knock they came to talk to me about a retired member and some possible foreign espionage possibly involving China i’m I’m uncomfortable with it and I want you to be aware of it because normally there might be some topto between Mike as deputy commissioner of federal policing and someone from CEUS sadly the pandemic was on we couldn’t meet face to face we couldn’t get into details um a lot of bizarre things happened i met repeatedly with CESUS intelligence officers to assist them in uh in information about Bill because I again I’m not married to Bill i don’t live with Bill i don’t live in Hong Kong maybe he did something wrong i wouldn’t know so I assisted them because I am a sworn peace officer i have an oath to my country and I’m a patriot um I provided everything I knew about Bill i then had to have my top secret security classification renewed just like Paul did so I went for what should be a 2 and 1 half three-hour interview it turned into a 5 and 1 half hour interview and interrogation and I was asked if I uh was aware of anyone having been to China and being introduced to government officials by Bill um had I been offered money um you know there there was this um this belief because I was unionizing the RCMP and because I had sued the RCMP to try and bring recognition and and identification to a harassment problem um that I was a malcontent no I I hate bullies Ryan and I will take them on frontally and it doesn’t matter if it’s in the hallway or the courtroom uh that’s why I became a police officer so time went by I didn’t get any response from that security interview um and I I realized why it’s because CEUS manufactured three allegations of treason sent them to the RCMP sometime in early 2021 and the RCMP began uh a covert investigation national security investigation of me now they will deny that um but we have seen in the materials they released they did more warrants more production orders and more investigative techniques on me than they did on Bill Micer who was apparently involved in espionage so I firmly believe that the RCP did a very hard anti-corruption look at me things seemed okay because they overtly came out and suspended my security classification which is routine in this scenario so that they could interview me um departmental security branch conducted a very thorough very professional investigation um the uh the officer running that unit ran a very good unit the investigator did a very good job um I cooperated fully and in the end um everyone in the Mounties knows that when they suspend your security classification it’s the one element that’s arbitrary that they use to fire you and uh they can just simply say they’re not giving it back to you and fire you because and as as a union organizer I know that because we represented many members um over that issue so they did their uh their interview uh Bill knew Bill Mer knew that I was likely going to be fired um and so he made the decision to disclose everything that he alleges he ever did for CEUS he provided the names of who recruited him to CEUS he provided operations that he conducted in China on behalf of CESUS he discussed how much he was paid he discussed who his handlers were he gave me email addresses for his handlers this is all very legitimate who did he disclose to to me so he he provided me 15 pages in writing i in turn took that to the RCMP and gave it to them and said “Look I’m not sure if you guys are aware but Bill’s been working for CESUS whatever they’re saying about him you need to balance this and ask CIS some hard questions we subsequently learned CESUS withheld that information from the RCMP and never told the RCMP the bill had been a paid asset as we went down this road um about a year later I was uh reinstated to above top secret by Departmental Branch because their investigation had been thorough the National Security Unit continued to investigate me in my relationship to Micer said that I was a witness said that Paul was a witness um I had my security classification reinstated to above top secret that’s a very unique indoctrinated level of security classification that happened in um the in April of 2023 in June of 2023 the RCMP national security section in Quebec put odit spyware on Paul’s phone my union phone not my personal phone but my union phone as a union executive and not the board of viewers but there’s very very restrictive rules called sensitive sectors and there are very extreme requirements around investigations and activities in Canadian religious academic political legal and labor areas these are known as sensitive sectors it’s a ministerial directive there’s no record of that ever being declared um there was some questionable activities and this is when Paul and I made the decision um that we really need to go hardcore and trying to get attention and proper oversight from government on this scenario um our first letter which I’ve disclosed to you and your viewers we we sent to NSOP National Security Intelligence because we were very concerned about the questions I was being asked by CEUS um and what was going on with the uh the security review of me we knew there was false intelligence circulating from CEUS that Paul had traveled to China had met with government officials and had been introduced to them by Bill none of which ever happened so which was caused and and this is information that she CISA shared with the US state department now again let me throw another case historical case at you aar Canadian agencies are not supposed to share uncorroborated intelligence with foreign agencies about Canadian citizens and they did CISA shared intelligence back door about McNamera and he lost his job he lost a 5-year contract he’d done a great job for 5 years they were renewing them and again they threw them over the rail so this is where we really said there needs to be some accountability and and so we reached out to public safety ministers when I found out about the spyware on my union phone i reached out to the president of the treasury board i reached out to the minister of labor um we reached out to senior officers in the RCMP all of this failed all of it the only response Ryan that we ever received you have and that was from the communications director in Prime Minister Trudeau’s office uh directing that Minister Menccino the first time and Minister Leblanc the second time would at least communicate with us and that never happened and thus my friend the very long story as to how we got to this letter there is no more correct time in a democracy to call to account the inactions of elected officials than during an election the public needs to know that they did not do their job the public needs to know that in this case the degree of their inaction had they acted prior to last October had they asked hard questions then never would the information have been released that identified Bill Mer as a spy it would never have been released that identified Paul McNamera as a target it never would have been released that I was the one that provided all of the details of the espionage activity that took place in China to the RCMP the three of us wear targets on our backs now as do a few other people that were named that’s serious Ryan that that crossed a very serious line so at that point it it was gloves off and if these folks aren’t going to do their jobs and if these so-called robust organizations like Ensira and Enikop that Prime Minister Trudeau and Marco Meduchccino and and uh Dominic Leblanc wanted us to believe in if they’re not going to do their jobs then we are and that led to the letter and so this is where we’re giving a man who has walked into a job as prime minister never held a seat in the House of Commons never been elected by the general population we’re giving him an opportunity to do the right thing he should have firmly removed Paul Chain at the very first incident of that with confirmation of that incident he should have acted swiftly with the information and the intelligence and the documents that we have provided him we’re asking him to act swiftly and this is something he needs to show Canadians he’s either up to the job of prime minister or he’s not and this is his moment this is his moment before election day to make a decision do I have what it takes to be prime minister can I make the tough decisions can I remove people that are politically loyal to me because they didn’t do their job this is the tough part of being the boss and if you want to be the boss you got to do the job well as Justin Trudeau used to try to say in the House of Commons if you want to sit in the big chair you have to be able to make the big decisions um now for those that um um maybe having some trouble following along one of the things that you said Paul was ODIT so um that is essentially an acronym um and there’s been I think there’s some different variations of it but my my understanding of that is essentially ondevice investigative tool now from an IT perspective um I’ve worked in IT for 20 years we have used not militaryra tools in in the organizations that I’ve worked with but we’ve used different tools to help protect the assets of of the organizations that we um that that we monitor but this is a different type of of tool this is a covert tool you don’t even know it’s there and they can click a button and listen in at virtually any time through your cell phone um and it’s a disturbing invasion of privacy um because they can put it on your work phone they could put it on your personal phone it doesn’t matter and it’s to your point your position that you’re in and and Paul’s position that he’s in you’re you’re going to be potentially around some very very special people that CSUS shouldn’t be listening into but they were and even even just that never mind the rest of it just that there should be some account accountability for the people who a made those decisions and b um didn’t disclose to people you know potentially around there that you know that this was happening um Paul when did you find out that the software was on your device i feel a story coming on it was It was August of 2023 so a month or so after um Micer had been arrested uh I was in Montreal with my family and we were actually walking around the F1 uh track my daughter’s a huge F1 fan so on a hot sunny day we’re walking around and I’m actually on the phone to Pete uh talking about our case as we we’ve been doing daily a number of times throughout the day but my my phone was exceptionally hot as I was talking to Pete and to the point where you know I I thought it was going to melt i gave it to my daughter who has an iPhone and of course being a teenager she’s up on all the technology and kind of says to me “Dad this is not normal but your phone is overheating.” And for those for those that don’t know when your phone gets really hot it means it’s working really really hard that means the processor in the phone is essentially maxed out at 100% and the phone the phone’s natural cooling capability can’t cool it down enough right and it was a hot day so you know I while I’m on the phone I I I just figured you know it’s a super hot day i’m holding this phone and it’s you know I’m not a techy guy it’s heating up and you know anyway I finished the phone call with Pete and uh we want to go back to our hotel and my feet are tired and I I said to the family let’s Uber it so I go to order an Uber on my phone and lo and behold my phone um is locked due to too many password attempts i cannot get into my phone it it I had to wait an hour before my phone would reset and you know I didn’t really I just kind of blew it off at the time i I I just like oh maybe I like maybe it rubbed up against my my my my leg or something like that maybe I you know I don’t know i I I had it in my hand for the most of the conversation so I I I just didn’t have a clue as to what was going on and you know I got frustrated and whatever and then eventually it you know we got back to the hotel room and you know eventually cooled down and came back to life but it was uh uh you know a month or two after that as a result of some paperwork that came forward through other channels that um an email surfaced uh within the RCMP where they their their covert access intercept team is writing back to the investigative team in in Montreal saying that they uh they have to be very careful trying to get into things like Dropbox LinkedIn and other applications on devices because of two factor authentication and due to too many password attempts the the user will be alerted to to the you know the attempted access to the device and that’s when the light bulb went off you know you know as a former detective the light bulb went off and I went “Aha this is quite possible that my phone has been uh compromised.” And you know over the last year and a half or so since I’ve known Pete you know our our standard joke now is “Hey CIS or RCMP whoever it is you’re listening to is talking because our you know our phones get hot at weird times uh it does weird things.” And let me tell you the weirdest thing and Pete’s going to laugh at this one because it just you know and Pete and I can’t quite remember when we when we saw it we laughed but I looked at my phone and I have Pete’s you know phone numbers in my address book so I’ve got his home number his cell number his work number his union number with the area codes from back east but underneath that in the same uh you know address book yeah it’s two white people that’s it all right i’ll try I’ll try and darken it up cesus is uh intervening there but the numbers the numbers for for Pete below that had an 852 area code they moved us to Hong Kong weird i I’ve never put an 852 number in front of Pete’s home number or his cell number my Toronto number became a Hong Kong number with 858 and Paul’s number by the way Pete you’re or Ryan or Pete you’re gonna have to you know take those numbers off the phone there when you showed it because I don’t need that yeah that was for you you’ll have to edit that off just so he doesn’t get a million phone calls um yeah yeah that was that was a Sam Cooper move when he was talking with Kevin and held up his cell paul Paul do you mind telling Ryan um for our two phone numbers how many times were ODIs applied how many times yeah because they were incorrect oh yes in an application to get Yep yeah yeah so my my they got my phone number wrong at least four times in the application to get authorizations on four civilians had it installed on potentially i mean they’re numbers that could come back with you know no access or no records who knows i mean we don’t know all that and they got Pete’s number wrong at least once um you know a digit wrong um you know mine my my my number was you know dyslexic in its in its presentation a number of times and they have to go back and recorrect it and even then they still got it wrong so and you’ve only learned this because of subsequent emails and documentation correct yeah we we received a lot of documents we’ve had a lot of document dumps um so Canada through public prosecution service and our department of justice have released a number of documents um the RCMP and the public prosecution service erently unsealed a bunch of documents which were made public last October uh a lot of this stuff advanced our case gave us tremendous evidence which again we turned and took to um uh to our requests for assistance which again were just completely ignored well you know it’s it’s amazing because if if you didn’t know this is a true story what’s the I was just gonna say this is this this sounds like something out of a Tom Clancy novel well it’s out of a Tom Clancy novel and then it’s topped off with a with a forward or an ending by France Kfka so it becomes very Cfka-esque at the end of the day and and you just end up going around in circles where nobody wants to be accountable look look mistakes are made i mean nobody’s perfect you know everybody makes mistakes you know whether it’s you know the legal profession policing the medical profession journalist whoever you make mistakes and and some of this I accept but when you make a mistake at this magnitude and this level and you’ve been advised by two two professionals who who have been in the world of being accountable and transparent I expect the same from our from our government and from the ministers in charge and that didn’t happen and as Pete said you know if you can’t sit in a big chair and do the job then you shouldn’t be there it’s it’s that simple well and this one if I can just one key message Ryan for um for those that we put under the bus you know it it’s not personal it’s not animous it’s professional you did not do your job and you put your hand up and you’ve taken the oath at the Governor General’s residence to become a minister in government and when you are responsible for things like national defense or public safety or the Treasury Board of Canada you must take your oath very seriously the problem at these ministerial levels is that there is not the oversight and accountability um and you know I worked for a really intelligent guy in the private sector uh between my time in the military and and joining the RCMP and he said you know one of the most important things as a manager and as a leader is to know when to manage an issue before it becomes a crisis and I think clearly um we’ve named these nine people not out of animus but because they were given specific clear-cut allegations they were given evidence offers of subsequent evidence and an opportunity to do their job and no one on their staff not them and even with direction from the prime minister’s office saying that they should probably reach out to us never bother to reach out to us um now is the time for the accountability it’s election time so you know Canadians need to know particular people in those riding associations you know it doesn’t matter how much you like them if they’re not up to the Look I I may love you and think you’re the best person in the world um but you know if you’re an auto mechanic I don’t want you doing a brain surgery on me i just don’t um they may be closely related but they’re not the same and if you’re just not up to the job if you don’t have the the knowledge skills and the abilities to execute the performance and the duties then don’t be there like elected politics is not a right um it’s a choice and again it’s we started this whole podcast by saying that one of the biggest problems in our country I think in North America and perhaps in democracies um has been this evolution in the last decade into extreme partisan politics very divisive visceral politics um that’s the stuff that leads to civil wars and and and and I don’t mean the types of you know the old US civil war with with soldiers marching each other across the field and decimating families but I’m talking about type of civil wars where we become so consumed with internal divisive partisan positions that we’re not working towards the the future of the company uh of the country and it’s it’s that old adage that if you spend too much time looking in the rearview mirror you can’t see what’s ahead of you in the windshield and we’ve got to do things for this country our relationship to the United States now has shown us we need to be more independent we need to have a better handle on our defense we need to have a better handle on our national security we need to diversify our trade relationships we need to be energy independent it’s great that everybody wants to green this and to green that i I have no challenge against um um those thoughts or policies but not at the expense of our well-being of our independence and our capability to function as a nation and if you’re going to compromise those things um then perhaps you’re not the right person to lead a nation you know maybe you should go lead a small green business or a corporation but not a nation and and this is where we sit today and so like I said I I think Canadians have a really tough choice um in less than two weeks time and I think they need to park their partisan um look at politics and really start to analyze what are these people telling us they can and will do and what’s the track record you know the Liberals are selling us a new leader but it’s the exact same cabinet it’s the exact same policies and it’s the exact same people that have given us this the largest debt in the history of our country we need to look long and hard and think long and hard when we make that choice where we’re going to put our our vote well and we’ve talked many times on the perspective of you know management and that often when it comes to a company you have a problem employee and if the problem employee isn’t managed properly then the fault now shifts from the employee to the manager and if the manager then isn’t managing that employee properly then the fault then moves from the manager to the director and then so forth so what both of you are saying with this letter is actually quite prudent because you’ve tried to address this with the teams they didn’t do their job you’ve tried to address this with the minister that is is head of those teams they didn’t do their job you’ve tried to address this with the prime minister he didn’t do his job now you’re trying to address it literally with the person and people that the prime minister reports to which is the Canadian electorate and uh um I think uh I think through throughout this entire conversation I’m I’m in complete agreement with the timing of this now because you you are literally putting the performance in front of the people that are deciding who gets these jobs and uh and and it’s at a time where it’s fresh in their mind and they should be making an educated decision and as long as they’re comfortable with that informed decision that’s Canadian dem democracy in action so um gentlemen we’ve uh been talking for a while um and uh I I really really do appreciate the the time that you’ve made um uh Paul I appreciate the trip that you’ve made back to the mainland in order to be able to have this conversation uh thank you i appreciate that and um appreciate it on behalf of Canadians in in in British Columbia and in in Vancouver and uh uh and the rest of Canada I I just on behalf of them I’d like to thank you both for your service uh as much as it’s been a challenge and as much as you’ve had to fight for the preservation of the integrity of your careers um a lot of Canadians a lot of Canadians do see the work that that both of you done and they do appreciate it um whether or not the uh the institutions that you’ve worked for have given you that impression or not so so thank you very much for for the long service and dedication to to the preservation of Canadian safety thank you very much for that thank you Ryan thank you Ryan appreciate it Department and on that note um ladies and gentlemen as uh as Paul and and Pete have said we have the most important decision in many of our lifetimes coming up in in in two weeks this is a critical moment in Canadian democracy ensure that you don’t just stop with the information that you’ve received on this podcast on Northern Perspective on social media on mainstream media make sure you continue to gather as much information that you can to ensure that you are an informed voter because that’s what this country has been missing for the last 10 years and that’s what Canada needs going forward in to ensure that our democracy is preserved so thank you very much both of you for joining us on Northern Perspective and um here’s to change for a new Canad Canadian democracy